My brother B told me earlier this week that he and M could finally do some shopping on Friday the 8th. I waited until the 6th and looked over the list I'd made them and, no surprise to me, about half of them had sold. Including all of the Ford Edge Titaniums that they were most interested in.
Naturally, I took this as an opportunity to go shopping some more. I actually found several winners. The first was a well optioned 2018 Edge SEL in Troy. It was priced under $17,000, had just over 51,000 miles, had all the needed equipment (AWD, remote start, heated front seats, keyless entry) and also had a heated steering wheel and navigation. It was also Blue certified which meant it came with a 90 day, 4,000 mile comprehensive limited warranty and a 14 day, 1000 mile buy back guarantee. BTW, it absolutely cracks me up that it's a 'comprehensive limited' warranty. I get what they're saying but still.
At that same dealership I also found a Jeep Cherokee that was well optioned, correctly priced, with lowish miles. Nearby I found a similar 2018 Ford Edge SEL. That's three cars in the same city, all of which they were interested in. I made sure that they were more interested in these than the only other city with multiple vehicles, (Howell, with a Jeep Cherokee, Ford Ecosport, and Ford Escape) since they weren't near each other or even in the same direction from our town. Once they agreed they liked these newer cars, I focused my attention in that direction, trying to keep the cars within 10 minutes drive of that first Ford dealership. Thankfully that's in the heart of the Detroit suburbs, so it's densely populated with a lot of suburbs and their own dealerships.
I won't go over every vehicle I picked out for them, but I'll say that by the time I went to sleep on Wednesday the 6th, I had 9 vehicles that matched their expectations all in the same direction of, or very nearby, Troy.
The next day I wanted to make a plan for shopping day. I know my brother and he'll want to end Friday by driving away in a new car. That means looking, choosing, dickering, and finally going through the whole sales processes. So we need to know which cars to look at in which order. As I double checked the list, I found that the Jeep Cherokee at that first dealership in Troy had sold. Fuck. But there was still plenty in Troy.
That night I went to B's house and sat down with him and M and we looked at all the cars I had picked out. Not only the ones that were possibilities for Friday's shopping trip, but ALL of them as it was the first time all of us could sit down and talk. That means we were looking at about 30 cars in total. All SUVs with AWD, heated front seats, remote start, and keyless entry (just to be clear, this is the entry that doesn't require pulling the key out at all, just walking up to the car, grabbing the handle, and it unlocking because you have the key in your pocket or purse). Almost all of them had extra options. They were priced between $14,000 and $19,500. They had between 30,000 and 85,000 miles.
One by one, we went through the cars and eliminated quite a few. Basically, anything above 70,000 miles got nixed. The Chevy Equinoxes all got nixed because they were overpriced compared to the Jeeps and Fords with similar (and often better) options. The Lincolns got nixed because they'd be expensive to repair and maintain. A few got eliminated because they were overpriced compared to everything else on the list. With the list narrowed down significantly I put aside (without eliminating) anything that wasn't in the direction of, or nearby, Troy.
The list was eight cars.
The first car on the list was the closest to us. No matter what other cars we saw, this one would be first. It was a 2020 Ford Ecosport Titanium. It had the good engine (Ford's 2.0L I4 Ecoboost), 37,000 miles, a heated steering wheel, upgraded audio (10 speakers), a moonroof, and navigation. And it was priced very competitively at $15,687.
A quick aside, B's major thrust when it comes to negotiating is getting it close to the NADA value and then getting them as far below that as we can. Even if their pricing starts below NADA value, he won't accept paying sticker. In that Ecosport's case, the NADA value was $15,800, so all they'd have to do is knock off $100 and B would be satisfied with the price. That made it his first choice. It was also our first stop because M hadn't ever seen a Ecosport live. It had to be as big as, if not bigger than her Trax, otherwise it would just be too small.
After stop one, we had basically two choices. Southfield and Troy.
Southfield and Troy. Both had three vehicles, with only one other vehicle in Ferndale that would serve as a 'last option' only because it was further away and had no other cars right near it.
Southfield had two cars at Glassman Auto Group. A 2018 Ford Edge Titanium that was fully loaded. Heated and cooled front seats, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel, upgraded audio (12 speakers), navigation, adaptive cruise, and a panoramic vista roof. It had the 3.5L V6 engine with 65,000 miles priced at $17,700. The other was a 2019 Jeep Compass Limited. It had Jeeps amazing 4x4 system and a heated steering wheel. It had a 2.4L I4 with 50,000 miles for $16,500. Then across town, but still in Southfield, there was another Jeep Compass Limited with the same options, less miles, but priced just over $18,000.
Troy had a 2019 Jeep Cherokee Limited with the same options as the above Compasses, with the 3.2L V6, 45,000 miles for $18,275. It was a certified used car by Mopar which gave it a 3 month, 3,000 mile warranty. Down the street was the Ford Edge SEL I spoke of above. heated steering, nav, 2.0L, 51,000 miles for $16,799, blue certified. And finally, further down the street was another Ford Edge SEL with heated steering wheel, nav, 2.0L, adaptive cruise, with 61,000 miles for $15,945.
By M's choice, we'd stop by to look at the Ecosport first then, unless that was a slam dunk, no need to look at anything else, lets buy this now car, we'd head to Southfield as she was very interested in the Ford Edge Titanium. While at that dealership we could also look at the Compass and if she liked the Compass we'd know if we could stay there and dicker on that one or head across town and dicker on the other Compass.
Before I got into anything else, we made an understanding on how this would work. Now that we had an order, M was the deciding factor. If she wanted the car we were looking at, we'd stop and dicker and try to buy it. If she wanted to look at other cars, we'd either leave it on the list to come back to or eliminate it. B would do the negotiation while I'd simply be the driver (of course we were taking Tatiana!) and once financing came up I'd be the co-signer on the loan. Ultimately though, this was M's decision.
With the story setup, lemme tell you this tale in chapters.
Chapter 1, Ecosport
The Ecosport was for sale at a Cadillac dealership. This immediately appealed to both B and I as we knew a higher end dealership would value their reputation. Yes, we're buying a very inexpensive car off their lot, but if we are displeased and write a bad review it won't matter that we bought a used $15,000 car, it would come across that the Cadillac dealership was shit. So naturally, they'd keep better cars and be more friendly across the board. At least that was our thinking.
When we got to the dealership I drove around their lot and we couldn't find it. It would stick out like a sore thumb as they had almost exclusively Cadillacs for sale (new and used). We finally called into the dealership and got a sales person that said he'd meet us outside with the keys to the car once he found out where it was.
Steve came out and was very forward, but pleasant for a car salesman. He was a personable black man that I at first assumed was several years younger than either B or I (remember, both B and M are younger than me). It turns out Steve is seven years OLDER than me and has been selling cars at that dealership for twenty five years. I liked him, B didn't.
Steve got us on a golf cart and drove us over to the service department where the Ecosport was. It turns out it was having its windshield replaced and had just been finished. I took a look at it with B and M and pointed out a few scratches and dings, mainly on the front, but didn't see anything untoward. Just what you'd expect on a five year old car. Hell, Tatiana already has a scratch on her hood from the drive to Texas and she doesn't even have 4,000 miles! I then showed M what the backseat room would look like when she was in the drivers seat, as both of their sons are tall like me. Through good design and packaging, I had plenty of room behind her seated position. My feet slid under her seat comfortably and I had a good half inch between my knees and her seat. I also had at least an inch of head room. When B sat in the passenger front seat, no one would be able to sit behind him. There was maybe three inches between the back of his seat and the front of the back seat. But at least M could drive around with her two sons, even if they couldn't fit 4 comfortably.
While B and M continued to look over the car, I started chatting with Steve. I like taking this role of interfering with the sales person so that others can look at the car undisturbed. Steve actually wasn't being a pain and was letting us all look at the car without bothering us, but I still wanted to make sure he didn't step in and bother them. We talked sports, and growing up, and working, and retiring, and a whole gamut of things that were completely unrelated to cars or the selling of this car in particular. Again, it was another reason I liked Steve. He knew I wasn't a decision maker in this, so why bother me with a push for a sale? We just chatted like old friends.
B and M finished their assessment and told me that they wanted to keep looking. We finished up with Steve and he texted his information to M's phone and said if we didn't find anything and were still interested in the Ecosport to give him a call. No pressure, just letting us know he's here if we need him. Nice.
As we headed to Southfield, M said that the Ecosport was fine. It would be a great upgrade over the Trax in every way except for size. It was 'slightly' bigger than her Trax but had less cargo room. She wanted to see the Edge and see what a big upgrade in space would be like.
Chapter 2, Glass
Before we got to the next dealership, it was lunch time. There weren't many fast food places where we were looking and we ended up at a Popeyes. Without exaggeration, it took us 45 minutes to wait in line, order our food, and get our food. Eating it took all of 10 minutes. While we were there, the sky opened up and just downpoured with a thunderstorm. So, all in all I guess it was fine that we were waylaid by Popeyes as we wouldn't have wanted to be outside looking at a car when it started to pour.
I had never heard of Glassman before looking at these cars. At first, I was suspicious as I vastly prefer to buy from a franchised car lot. A Caddy, Ford, Chevy, Jeep, Mazda, whatever dealership that just happened to also sell used cars. I figure they have a better reputation to maintain and generally keep a better grade of car on their lot as opposed to strictly used car lots. Initially I almost threw out this Edge as it was for sale at Glassman Auto Group, "The Largest Indoor Used Car Dealership in Michigan!" But a little searching showed me that Glassman has MANY car lots, all right in that area. Glassman Kia, Glassman Hundai, Glassman Genesis, Glassman Subaru, Glassman Mitsubishi. They just so happened to not sell used cars at any of their new car lots and instead have a HUGE used car lot that supports all of them. Glassman Auto Group.
It was unusual to drive up to a 'car lot' and not see any used cars for sale. You have to walk in side and then it's like walking into a car show, cars lined up as far as you can see. BUT, customers don't get to just walk among the cars. No, a salesman comes up, greets you, finds out what you are looking for, and once you're 'checked in' will get the car and bring it out to you. To be honest, I don't understand the appeal. I get it if you can walk around inside and look at the cars. Weather is suddenly not a deterrent for looking at cars. Rain doesn't stop a sale, snow doesn't mean having to clean off cars before someone can look, dust doesn't build up (or at least doesn't build up as fast). But if you can't walk around and look at them... well I just don't get it.
Regardless, we 'checked in' which required M handing over her drivers license so she could test drive it, and our sales person, Moe (seriously... his name was Moe), brought out the Blue Edge Titanium. We were immediately confused. For an indoor lot, this car was DIRTY. If it had been sitting outside, it would be understandable, but inside? There's no reason it should be shown to us with bird shit on it. Or with dirt marks behind the wheels. Or with a dust coating that was thick. The car wasn't as in good of shape as the Ecosport. There was a big dent in the rear bumper where one of the parking sensors sat. There was a dent in the front bumper at another parking sensor and a crack in the front bumper near another parking sensor. We immediately knew we'd have to check out all the parking sensors closely, but assumed since it had been on the lot for a couple months that it surely would be working. There is also a cap on the door handle that was missing. It's designed to cover up the key hole as you only need the keyhole if the battery is dead in either your remote or the car. It's designed to pull off, use the key, and then be put back on. It was just gone. At most, it'd be like $75 to buy a replacement in the same color from Ford, or at least that's what I figured. But still, it wasn't a good impression. If it was on their lot for a couple months, why didn't they order the part? They have a body shop, so they obviously have the connections to buy replacement parts.
Obviously, our opinion of the dealership is dropping like a stone. But we got into the Edge and took it for a ride. It drove just fine. The engine is quite powerful with almost 300 horsepower and torque. We found an empty parking lot so we could look it over closer without being watched by Moe. I had B stand near the parking sensors while I tested each one out and it turns out they all worked fine. The dents and crack was just cosmetic. More cosmetic damage than we're happy with, but nothing that eliminates the car from consideration. While we were checking everything else out, B opened the panoramic vista roof's shade just to put eyes on the sun roof and make sure it went smoothly.
While M was looking over the interior, B and I looked at the engine. Let me tell you, this engine compartment was terrible. It was literally tan with dust and dirt. There were dried up dead leaves all over the cowl. It looked like the engine compartment had NEVER been cleaned. And again, not to beat a dead horse, but I'd seen that this car had been on their lot and offered for sale for MONTHS! The dealers rep was continuing to drop like a stone.
I thought it was all fine. Not great, but still worth dealing on if M liked it. But M noticed something. Looking up at the glass roof she asked "Is that a water mark? Or is that a crack?"
It looked like a big pool of water was on top of the sunroof. You couldn't feel anything inside. But once you were outside, where you couldn't see the 'water' you could feel the crack. Understand, with Ford's "Panoramic Vista Roof" this is a two panel glass roof. The first panel is just like a large sunroof. It's glass, it can tip up to 'vent', or it can slip up over and back to open up the top. The second panel sits behind that one and doesn't move, it just offers a lot of sunlight into the back seat. I love them and have had them in both Nautiluses and my Edge. But here, that second back panel was cracked. It's not the a part that's designed to come up and off like a normal sunroof. This is a panel that's a supporting part of the ROOF.
At that point our assessment was over. There is no way we'd drive that car off the lot with a broken roof. Maybe, MAYBE, if they fixed it, we could talk and dicker, but it would mean NOT getting the car that day. M would have to absolutely LOVE the car and the dealership would have to be completely understanding and really give us a good deal.
When we got back, the Compass was already out and ready to be looked at. B had to stay back to take a phone call (a doctor's appointment), so M and I took the Jeep for a ride. Before we left I told Moe about the roof and that we wouldn't drive it off the lot like that. He said he understood and would talk to his manager to see what he could do. I won't go over the Compass in detail, instead I'll just say that the Compass was dirtier than the Edge and that M didn't like the ride. She liked the Ecosport more, she liked the Edge more, so we eliminated not only this Compass but the other Compass as well. Jeep Compasses would no longer be on our lists, no matter their feature set or price.
When we got back, I told Moe that we were eliminating the Compass and had to wait for B to talk about the Edge. He invited M and I inside and immediately went into sales mode. Keep in mind, I was NOT the negotiator. Even though B wasn't there, I'd defer to M. So as Moe started asking basic sales questions (will you need a new plate?, are you financing through us?, how much money are you putting down?) M started to answer them. When he actually asked for information about the financers and M started to give him B's information I finally stepped in. I tried to be calm as the guy was only doing his job. M was letting him run us past the point we were willing to go, and that's not on him. But I wouldn't let him go further since we hadn't discussed the glass. I politely told him that while I appreciated him moving forward, there was nothing more to talk about until we discussed the roof. He was fine with it and said he hadn't talked to his manager yet. I nodded, sat back, and gave every non-verbal sign I could that we'd wait until he HAD talked to his manager.
Moe got the message, said he'd find his manager, and get back with us 'in a few minutes'. While he was gone, we noticed he'd taken the copy of M's drivers license with him, but left another sheet of paper on his desk right in front of us. I took a look at it and immediately put it down, face down. It was a copy of someone else's drivers license. I immediately got pissed, wondering if he'd left M's drivers license copy sitting out with some other customer nearby. A few more minutes passed, and I finally called it. We were being screwed with, whether on purpose or through incompetence, it didn't matter. I grabbed M and we went out to talk with B. B actually met us on the way out and he agreed. If they didn't have an answer by now, that just meant that they weren't interested in selling it as much as we were interested in buying it.
On our way to Tatiana, Moe came out and waved us over. He was walking with someone that I assumed was the manager. A skinny guy with glasses wearing a suit. Moe talked with us and said that he hadn't gotten to his manger yet, but he wanted to see if there was some number we could get to where we'd buy it WITH the glass still broken. I was going to shut that down immediately, but B beat me to it. NO. There was no number. And since he didn't have an answer on getting it fixed, we were out of there. As I expected, the 'manager' then walked up and asked us what was going on. B and I tag teamed him, going back and forth. How dare you show us a car in this condition? The dents, the broken bumper, none of it disclosed, the dirty car, the dirty engine compartment, the dirty interior. And while we could move past any and all of that, there was still the matter of them trying to sell us a broken car with a broken roof.
To say the guy was surprised would be an understatement. We walked HIM over to the car and showed him what we were talking about, from the dirt, to the interior, to the dents, to the broken bumper, to the dirty engine compartment, and finally the broken sunroof. The guy then looked at Moe and told him "Go grab the managers while I stay and talk with these customers".
Fuck. I was so hoping we were already talking to the manager. Ah well. We kept it up knowing we'd have to go through the song and dance again. We just took a single moment to make sure M wanted the car, IF we could get them to fix the roof first. She said she did, but also understood that it was a NO GO if they wouldn't fix it or tried to sell it to us at a discount with it still broken. The managers came and were introduced. They were shown all of the stuff we showed the suit guy BY the suit guy and they were... ashamed? pissed? upset? I'm not sure. I was obviously confused about the relation ship of the suit guy and the managers.
After they talked a bit on it, the general manager (I forgot his name) asked if we'd be willing to take the car for $2,000 off with the broken roof. To be honest, that's not a bad deal... but no. A broken sun roof can cast over $2000, let alone a structural part of the car. He more or less threw up his hands and dismissed us when we told him there was no way we'd drive away with the car in that condition. After a bit more of going back and forth, and the suit guy and managers looking at the Compass, we tried to say goodbye to Moe, but the suit guy sent the other manager over to us. Dave, the sales manager, was far better at his job. He apologized profusely for everything. For even showing the car in such a dirty condition, for having a broken car on their lot, and even for the other manager and his mannerisms. He said he was only interested in getting a deal done and asked US what could make that happen.
Now THAT's what a good sales person does in that situation.
A quick aside. B has been dealing with anxiety recently. I knew a bit about this at the time, enough to know that that's what his phone call was about and that he was on medication, but no other specifics. I could see, however, that B was out of sorts. I'm not sure if it was his anxiety or not, but I stepped in further than I said I would just to try and offer some relief.
Anyway, I told Dave that if there was any hope for us to buy the car, it would have to be fixed. I didn't care who fixed it, just that it was fixed and in good with a guarantee of workmanship before we took it. IF that could happen, we could deal. I know a lot of people would knock Dave for his answer, but I actually gave him more respect and internal points for his honesty. He said he couldn't deal on a car with that condition when he didn't know what it would take to fix the car. He said he'd have an answer later that day, and could negotiate then, but he knew we were on a timetable and ready to move on.
After thanking him for his time, and especially thanking him for his demeaner (and reminding him that the other manager was a piece of shit), he added that now that we've driven it, if we didn't buy anything that day he would be here late that night and all day tomorrow (Saturday) and we could fully negotiate over the phone. We could in fact do almost the entire negotiation and sale over the phone, since obviously if he could make it happen, the car wouldn't be fixed for a week or more.
He and the suit guy walked off with handshakes from everyone except B, B doesn't shake hands, and as we were saying bye to Moe we asked who the guy in the suit was. I forget what his first name was, but he was Mr. Glassman. As in Glassman Auto Group. As in the owner of ALL the dealerships.
Yeah, no wonder the general manager was upset with us. We made him look like shit in front of the owner. In front of HIS boss.
Anyway, Moe said he'd text his information to M's phone so that we had it if we wanted to call later and find out about the roof or negotiate on the Edge.
Before I move on to the next chapter, I'll say that before we even drove off the Cadillac dealership lot, Steve had texted M with his information. Moe never did text us his information. As good as Mr. Glassman was and as good as Dave was, there is just no way we'd deal with Glassman ever again. When I'm feeling better (I have a migraine as I'm writing this) I'm going to write a bad review for the auto group.
Chapter 3, Land Rover
We started driving to Southfield. M said that even though we couldn't get THAT Edge, she was sold on the idea of an Edge. The size, the way it felt, the look... she liked it all. As it was going to be four o'clock when we arrived in Troy and both dealerships closed at six, she had to make a choice. Do we go for the silver Edge at the Ford dealership that's Blue Certified for $16,799 or the black Edge at the Land Rover dealership that's not certified, had the same features as the silver one plus adaptive cruise, had more miles but was only $15,945.
She chose the black one.
If it were me, I'd have gone with the one at the Ford dealership as we could have discussed the Ford warranty. I had prices on warranties from that online dealership that specializes in selling them at cost, so we could try and haggle them on that and maybe get it with the car loan. The MIGHT be able to walk out with the Edge and a bumper to bumper warranty for 6 years and 75,000 miles. B and M could always buy the warranty on the black Edge, but as it wasn't a Ford dealership, it couldn't be part of that deal. It wouldn't be bundled with the car loan. And at $3,320 it was unlikely to happen as a separate sale. But, it's not my car, it's not my decision, and I can CERTAINLY understand making a call on aesthetics.
So, we headed over to Land Rover of Troy. Just like the Cadillac dealership, we drove around and couldn't find it. We had to call in and talk to a sales person. He said he'd have to find it and would come outside to meet us. It took about 15 minutes, just when I was about to mention that we could go to the other dealership and look at a very similar Edge, before he came out. He said he'd found it. It had just been serviced the other day and was way in the back of their lot. He just needed to find the keys.
After inviting us inside to their waiting area, he went off to get the keys and bring it up front for us. When he came back a little over five minutes later, he was very apologetic. He found the keys and was bringing the car up, but it was out of gas. As in, it stalled before he could get it to the front of the lot, out of gas. He'd put a gallon in it from their supply, but he needed to go to a gas station to fill it up. As he was walking away he stopped, turned around, and told us that we also had to be warned that it hadn't been cleaned yet. It was dirty inside and out. At least he stopped and told us!! They don't lose points when we're informed BEFORE looking at the car. And in this instance, compared to Glassman, they only had the car for a few days per CarFax.
Ten minutes later he drove up in it and we all filed out to start the inspection process over. It WAS dirty, but not nearly as dirty as the Glassman Edge. It just looked like it hadn't been cleaned before someone traded it in, not that it had been neglected. He promised us that if we were to buy it, it would be detailed inside and out before we drove away.
We looked it over briefly and then took it for the test drive. When we found an empty lot we took the closer look. First thing, it was in far better shape than any of the other cars we'd looked at. Obviously it was better than the other Edge, but where the Compass and Ecosport both had the normal wear and tear you'd expect on a five and six year old car (scratches, little dents, dings...), this one had very few blemishes. Especially for a SEVEN year old car!
Everything worked, we didn't spot anything that wouldn't clean up, and said it was fine. We then cornered M, reminding her that it was completely her choice. If she was sold on this one, we could get it. We did NOT have time to look at anything else today. BUT, if she was sold on Edges, we could look further online. We could eventually find another Titanium with better options, a better color (while she liked the black better than the silver, she REALLY liked the blue of the Glassman Edge), and maybe even a better price. She could approve it by picture, then B and I could go and get it. B has every Friday and Saturday off and since I'm not working we could basically go any Friday to get a car. It might be a week or three, but we could find another car. It would just mean not getting one today.
She hemmed and hawed, and we both reminded her that she'd settled on her last car, not getting options that she didn't think were important. In this case she's giving up on cooled seats, heated rear seats, upgraded audio, and a panoramic vista roof. Plus a lot of other little bells and whistles that come with a Titanium over an SEL.
M decided that this was her car. B and I could both tell that she was settling, but it was her call so we let her settle if that's what she wanted. The Edge was priced very close to NADA. If I haven't mentioned it before, NADA pricing is like Kelly Blue Book pricing. NADA stands for North American Dealer Association and is a standardized set of pricing that dealers use above Kelly's Blook Book pricing. It's sometimes called 'Red Book' pricing. Anyway, the only real negotiating factor we had was that it was going to need tires sooner rather than later. They'd get through the summer, but maybe not the winter.
So as we sat down, B started as he should. Make them negotiate against themselves at first. "What's your best price". Remember, the sticker is $15,945 and they know they're going to get us financing which often gives them a kickback (i.e. more negotiating room). He said he could go down to $15,800. B's offer was $14,945 as he was going to need "$1000 in tires" soon. The guy said he couldn't go down that far, and humorously said that we should probably shop at Discount Tire as even expensive tire for that size should only be about $800. He did, however, move down to $15,700. I honestly thought B would go for it as that was now below NADA and they'd moved about $250. But, B offered $15,500.
The salesman said he'd have to talk to his manager. The manager came over and said that they priced their cars competitively, looking at other prices online daily so that they'd stay competitive. He didn't think he could go down that far, but he'd take a look. Yeah yeah, we all knew it was just a negotiating technique. Thankfully when he came back he agreed to B's offer. $15,500.
Chapter 4, Financing
Now that we had the car and the negotiations were over, we had to do the financing. The salesman asked how much we wanted to put down and got the "Nothing" that we'd talked about. With my name on the loan we shouldn't need any down payment. It of course takes twice as long since both B and I have to apply but we get through it. As we sit down and wait, I look at my credit union and see that if I were financing this on my own, I could get 6.74% financing. B, through his credit union was being offered 9.9% financing. Not out of the realm of reality since B had limited credit and his bad credit was still on his record. I figured with my name on it, we should get a little lower than 9, but nowhere near the 6.74 I'd get on my own. Maybe 8? 8.5?
It seems they were focusing on my credit as they came back to ask me several other questions. I don't blame them, as I'm currently making $5,000 a month by NOT working and was making $7,500 a month before as a nurse manager at an unusually named hospital (it probably would have been easier if it was a prison).
Both B and I got dings from our credit monitoring apps. B had a hard inquiry on his credit from the dealership. When I looked at mine, I guess it just updated faster. I had 4 hard inquiries on mine. One from the dealership, three from various financial institutions. B got hit with the other three a few minutes later.
At this point, just from the hard inquiries, I'm expecting to lose about twenty points on my credit. I know it's only short term, and assuming B pays regularly, I'll gain more than I lost over a year or so. But still, any more hits and I'd lose MORE. When the sales man came back, he said he'd gotten us financed, but the bank was requiring a down payment of $1,300. He again asked how much we could put down. B, his anxiety and anger returning, said "Nothing". The salesman waited a couple beats, nodded, and said "Lets see what I can do!"
Good for him. There are always other options. But it made me think... why would they require a down payment. I've NEVER been required to have a down payment. And when I've financed most of my cars, Ginger, Isabella, Nina, and Tiffany, I actually rolled in negative equity. I owed more on my trade in so I was financing (just as an example) $30,000 for a car that had a sticker of $25,000. In this case we were financing a car for less money than NADA said it was worth.
When I gave it more thought though, it started to make sense. B had just financed a car. The last time we did this, he had worse credit, but also didn't have an outstanding car loan. Now he did, AND he still had a bad hit on his credit from a car loan gone bad. Plus, B now owns a house. That's new since he bought even his last car. And it's not all on his side. Except for Layla, I've had years of straight work history. Now I had almost 2 years of long term disability (which means NOT working) and before that less than 2 years at my last job. And like B, I also just financed a car. Yeah, I got a sweetheart deal and financed it for WAY less than it was worth, but that's not what they're looking at. They're looking at me already $53,000 in Auto Debt.
While the salesman was working his magic, I talked it over with B and admitted that I probably just wasn't bringing in the same amount of juice as I had before. True, it's both of us, but I'm the one that said I could co-sign as if my name would fix everything. And my name is NOT fixing everything, so I'll take the blame. Anyway, since I'd recently taken money out of my 401K (hopefully more than that tomorrow in an 'Update' post), and my LTD ended up paying me AGAIN after I told them I didn't need an extension (more on that later too), I could offer B $1,300. He'd pay me back 'whenever you can, no rush' as I know it won't be easy for him to get the money together.
This offer was partially self serving. If we didn't get this done today, and ended up going to another dealership later, both of our credits would be hit with hard inquiries again. And that next inquiry would see the recent inquiries... giving us even less chance of a good deal. Even if it went through smoothly, it was still going to tank both our scores more than I wanted. B appreciated the offer and said he'd think about it.
The sales guy came back and said he got the deal done, BUT, it was at 11.9%. Fucking OUCH. I mean, yeah... I can accept that since the other bank would only do it with money down, but OUCH. B evidently had the same feeling as he immediately asked what the interest rate would be with the $1,300 down. The sales guy, in good humor, snarked "oh, so now you can do more than 'Nothing'!" and went off to find out. He came back and the interest rate would be 9.2% with the $1,300 down. The monthly payment was workable for B, but it seemed to high for the price we'd negotiated. He then saw on the paperwork that it was only financed over 60 months instead of the expected 72. When B asked about it, the salesman said that the bank wouldn't finance a 2018 for over 60 months. He said he could look for more financing, but it would mean more hits to our credit.
Since the price was technically within B's desired range, he accepted it. It just meant that even if they offered a good deal on an extended warranty, he couldn't accept it. That's why he wanted the 72 month option.
At this point it was twenty after six, or twenty minutes after the dealership closed and we still had to go through the paperwork and last bit of sales from the 'Finance Guy' or 'Business Manager', or whatever title he had. The guy that would make us sign our names fifty dozen times and sells on carpet protection, tire and glass warranties, maintenance plans, and of course extended car warranties. B was fine with any hard sales, as they'd already cornered him with the monthly price on the car. He couldn't add anything else.
When we got called into the finance guys office he had us sign a couple papers then got a tablet out. I'd never seen this process before. B had to first sign his name on a blank area and agree that it was his digital signature. Then the paperwork started. Instead of having to 'sign' each page, he just had to tap at the signature area, and his signature appeared. It even worked when he just needed his initials. B 'tapped' his signature many times and at the end had to sign again and agree he'd digitally signed the previous documents. After the finance guy signed, agreeing as the witness to B's signing, we repeated the process with me. The signing of the paperwork that normally takes twenty minutes to a half hour, took about ten minutes instead.
And there was NO sales whatsoever. No offer of carpet protection or tire warranties or maintenance plans or extended car warranties. Nothing.
At that point we walked out, the sales man put the license plate on the Edge, gave M the keys, and we all shook hands. Even B shook hands which tells me that he had a good experience. B and M drove off their way, and I drove off mine as I wanted to stop and get a soda and use a bathroom before I got on the highway.
I wish I could say what the Edge's name is, but I haven't driven her, let alone gotten to know her. She's not mine and it would be weird if she spoke to me. Although I'll be hard pressed to NOT think of her as Layla. Yes, she has a different grille, and a slightly different interior, but she's very much like my Layla.
Anyway, all's well that ends well! My sister in law has her new 2018 Ford Edge SEL with almost 61,000 miles, AWD, heated front seats, heated steering wheel, remote start, navigation, and adaptive cruise control, purchased for $15,500 and financed over 5 years. I got to help my brother and am comfortable that I'll not only get my $1,300 back but will get a big bump in my credit from him paying all the payments on time.
Except that's not where the story ends.
Chapter 5, Problems in Paradise
I had every intent on Saturday morning to write up my reviews. I was going to give a quick but good review of the Cadillac dealership, a shitty review of Glassman, and a glowing review of the Land Rover dealership. Before I got the chance though, B sent a text to our family group. "So, M's car would not start this morning. I got it started... Check engine light came on. Took it to AutoZone to scope. #2 spark plug is misfiring. Can we change a spark plug, R?"
MOTHER FUCKER!!!!!
How much shit can B and M go through on their cars? Their engine blows TWICE in their relatively new Trax. B's motor blows TWICE in his Buick. B's Malibu gets rear ended by a teen driver in a Jeep Grand Cherokee and it takes a month for his insurance to decide that it's totaled. They had their $50,000 Traverse totaled in a car accident. They had their other Traverse repossessed when they couldn't make the payments. They had their Cruze's engine die a slow and belabored death over the course of a year when they couldn't afford to fix it. And now I step in to 'help' and lead them to a car that less than 12 hours of purchasing, gets a check engine light and a misfiring spark plug!
So, B brought it over along with a new spark plug and a new coil pack. Cost him a total of $90 in parts and R was able to do the labor for free. R even has a OBD II scanner so he could clear the check engine light. And it worked!
For awhile.
Like a few hours.
B picked me up later as we were going to see Superman (he had to go with me... part of me helping him with the car!), and I could feel the engine running bad and witness it having difficulty starting. After the movie, we came back and R hooked up his scanner again... Spark Plug #2 misfiring. At this point it's either the spark plug wire itself (highly doubtful) or something far deeper in the engine like the ECU.
The only way to find out is going to be taking it into a mechanic. And as we want it detailed and done right, that means the dealership. Their diagnostic is going to be at least $200, let alone any actual repairs. And this is going to be an actual pain since B will need his car to go to and from work, M will need a car to go to and from work, all while her 'new' car is in the shop. Yeah, she's going to have to borrow Mom's Escape again.
B texted the salesman about what was going on. The first text was while we were putting the new spark plug in and was something along the lines of "Couldn't even go a day without problems. Spark plug misfiring and trying to fix it now." The salesman at least replied "Oh no. I'm sorry to hear that. Keep me updated."
Later that night, B texted him again. "Well, its still having the same problem after changing out the spark plug and ignition coil. About 90 bucks. Getting the same code. Now I have to take it to a dealership? BTW - Sorry to text after hours."
And again to the salesman's credit, he replied "I'll speak with my manager on Monday. I'm sorry this has happened."
Now, at the end of the day, R, B, and I all recognize that the dealership owes us nothing. We in fact had to sign a paper acknowledging that there is no 'cool down period' in our state, meaning that once we buy the car, it's ours and we can't return it. We bought it AS IS. And as uncommon as it may be, this can be complete circumstance that it broke just after it was sold. It doesn't mean they were nefarious and hiding this from us. So they can easily wipe their hands and be clear of this. BUT, there's that reputation part. And it's not even a Cadillac dealership this time. It's LAND ROVER. Wanna guess how important reputation is to a dealership that has USED SUVs on their lot as I write this for over $150,000? Their first page of used cars, when ordered by price, doesn't even drop below $85,000. And their new cars? Well, they have one at $54,000 but they go up in price QUICKLY after that and keep going all the way to over $160,000!
What I'm saying is that a review on their Google Maps site, their Yahoo Business listing site, their Yelp site, and their Facebook site, all saying basically "I bought a used SUV from this dealership and it broke 10 hours later. The dealership didn't do diddly to help me out" leaving out the fact that it was a $15,000 Ford and not a $100,000 Range Rover, would hurt them a LOT. And while they don't know it, my Google Maps reviews actually carry weight. I'm a Level 6 Local Guide, have well over 100 reviews, and have multiple millions of views of said reviews (last I looked, it was at 12 million views).
Hopefully they stand up and help out.
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